The Andalusian Thing

I don't doubt that an Andalusian can be good spinners. I've heard several reputable fanciers claim this to be the case. My question is, "Why?"

Classic Andalusian is said to be a combination of HETEROZYGOUS Indigo x homozygous or heterozygous spread black (i.e., blue series pigeons having spread).

Can anyone with enough experience claim that those oddball-looking birds that are HOMOZYGOUS Indigo x spread black, having light-colored body feathering with dark-colored heads, are likewise more likely to be good spinners? (Those that look this odd may be culled before their rolling ability is evident.) How about heterozygous or homozygous Indigo in the ash-red series? Are these also prone to being superior spinners?

Is there any difference in the "hard" or "soft" feathering of Andalusian vs. other "normal" colors in rollers?

Many roller fanciers have found in certain roller strains that certain colors/factors/modifiers produce a higher percentage of quality spinners than the birds of the same strain which are lacking these genes.  Examples include:

 

ASRA

1. In some families, recessive reds or recessive red spangles and mottles.

2. In some families, grizzle seems to weaken the rolling resistance of the dark checks so that the better performers in that strain tend to be the dark tortoiseshell grizzles.

3. In many families, spread seems to enhance rolling quality, because the spread blacks or lavenders seem to turn out to be better performers than their check, T-check or barred siblings. Note how certain families have lots of spread black (e.g., Rick Mee's birds, some of the Rich Hayes' birds, or some of the O.D. Harris pigeons, where lavender and black spreads are often found (the "pure" Harris birds seemed to have lots of barred birds and spread birds, but not so many checks or T-pattern birds).

4. Among dark checks in some families, a higher percentage of good spinners tends to appear where smoky is present than when smoky is absent, as if smoky somehow weakens the rolling resistance of the stronger dark check birds. 

I haven't heard that anyone has produced a lot of great spinners with Indigo in combination with check or bar in the blue series, or with any pattern in the ash-red series. If the better Andalusian spinners appear only in the heterozygous version of Indigo in combination with spread black, then it would appear that what is going on is that the single gene for Indigo "forces" or intensifies the diminished rolling resistance we often find in spread blacks. If anyone with experience flying rollers carrying or expressing Indigo can address this, it would be interesting.--Jay Yandle? Brian McCormick? (Brian may be able to tell us what Randy Gibson has observed. I've heard Randy flew some fabulous Andalusian).

Thanks!
Tom Monson.
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A pigeon cannot carry indigo. A none indigo bred from a pair with one as a parent will never produce an indigo. Indigo is a dominant- it must be present (the bird must be an indigo in order to produce one). - Brian McCormick

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The hen is what she is color-wise. A cock has two genes for color and hen has one. A hen produced from a pair, her color will be determined by the cock. The sons which have two color genes get one from the father and one from the mother. Hens can carry recessive color genes such as recessive red and contribute those as they are a separate non-sex related color contribution. In your recited example the son produced from that pairing received one color gene from the father and one from the mother. Her contribution was the genes for dilute and recessive red. (you said yellow). Indigo is a partial dominant, the partial being that it is not sex linked nor recessive. It cannot be carried. It has to be present in one of the parents in order to produce another one. - Brian McCormick
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Patterns (bar, check, dark check, etc) are not sex linked, but each parent provides one copy of either the pattern they are expressing or the pattern they are carrying. Pigeons have two copies for patterns and express the most dominant of the two. Meaning a pigeon possessing both the gene for check and bar will express check and "carry" bar. The pigeon can pass on either one of the genes to the offspring. The bald head marking is different and is not a sex linked expression. Neither is grizzle. - Brian McCormick

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Indigo is an autosomal dominant gene. Since it is dominant, any bird that carries it will show it and therefore it is very easy to follow. Indigo, in its heterozygous state, gives a blue pigeon a purplish hue and changes the bars or checks from black to a plum color. It also washes out the tail bar so instead of being black the tail bar is lighter than the rest of the tail.

 

Indigo combined with black (blue plus the spread factor) yields the typical "Andalusian Blue" seen in many breeds. In the homozygous state, indigo on a blue base mimics ash red, and such a bird resembles an ash red with a slightly darker ground color. On a black base, homozygous indigo yields a bird with a near-white ground color and darker lacing. Indigo in combination with brown gives a bird that very closely resembles an ash red, but with richer wing markings and some tell-tale lacing on upper tail coverts. Indigo with ash red is virtually indistinguishable from ash red, although when combined with spread often gives a rich mahogany effect. - Harold Barnhart  ==============================================================================